The Biblical Mind

Why We Struggle to Read the Bible—And How to Fix It (Alex Goodwin) Ep. #192

What if the way we format and structure the Bible is actually making it harder to read? In this episode, Alex Goodwin joins The Biblical Mind Podcast to discuss how chapter breaks, verse numbers, and footnotes—while useful for study—can actually disrupt the natural flow of Scripture.
Alex shares his journey from marketing to Bible publishing, how his first exposure to serious theology transformed his faith, and why modern Bible formatting has fundamentally changed how people engage with Scripture. He and Dru explore how early Christians and Jews experienced the Bible (hint: it wasn’t through personal quiet times with a study Bible), why reading big sections matters, and how removing unnecessary “additives” can help us better understand the biblical story.
This episode also tackles the difference between Bible literacy and Bible fluency, the power of listening to Scripture, and why engaging the Bible in community leads to richer understanding. If you’ve ever struggled with Bible reading, this conversation will challenge and inspire you to rethink how you interact with Scripture.
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Chapters
00:00 From Marketing to Ministry: A Journey of Faith 04:47 The Impact of Formatting on Bible Reading 09:10 Bible Sales vs Bible Literacy 13:21 The Bible Reset 17:34 Listening vs. Reading: Engaging with Scripture in New Ways 20:41 Pursuing Biblical Fluency 27:08 The Concept of a Bible Reset 31:25 Reevaluating Church Practices 36:52 Engaging with Scripture in Community 40:55 The Role of the Congregation in Biblical Literacy

Faith, Politics, and Media: Rethinking Christian Political Involvement (Kaitlyn Schiess) Ep. #191

Are we mistaking media consumption for political engagement? In this episode, Kaitlyn Schiess joins The Biblical Mind Podcast to challenge the way Christians think about politics, faith, and media. She explains why binge-watching C-SPAN or endlessly scrolling Twitter doesn’t make us politically engaged—but actually forms us into people less capable of real advocacy.
Dru and Kaitlyn discuss the modern obsession with national politics, why Christians ignore their local communities, and how the church provides a model of meaningful engagement. Instead of trying to "change the world" through social media outrage, Kaitlyn argues that real political involvement means knowing your neighbors, understanding local government, and prioritizing embodied relationships.
They also explore the role of Christian media consumption, asking whether 24-hour news, partisan social feeds, and political influencers have become a form of secular discipleship. How can Christians discern which voices are trustworthy? And how can the church offer a healthier alternative?
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Kaitlyn Schiess' Content https://www.holypost.com/https://www.facebook.com/kaitlyn.schiesshttps://www.instagram.com/kaitlynschiesshttps://twitter.com/KaitlynSchiess
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Chapters
00:00 Misunderstandings in Political Engagement03:45 The Impact of 24-Hour News Cycle07:13 Agency and Exhaustion in Political Involvement09:46 Local vs. National Political Engagement13:52 The Role of Community and Church16:17 Listening to Trustworthy Voices25:02 Understanding Local Politics Through Community Engagement26:14 The Importance of Recognizing Underlying Narratives28:18 The Challenge of Political Discourse in Faith Communities31:09 The Role of Stories in Shaping Political Beliefs34:44 Navigating Conspiracy Theories in Faith Contexts37:12 The Need for Meaningful Conversations in Churches40:00 The Impact of Media Consumption on Relationships41:51 Reality TV and Its Moral Implications

From the Five Percent Nation to Biblical Scholar: CHT Fellow Hakeem Bradley Ep. #190

What if the Bible isn’t meant to be neatly packaged and easily explained? In this episode, CHT Fellow Hakeem Bradley joins The Biblical Mind Podcast to discuss how engaging scripture means leaning into tension rather than eliminating it. He explains why asking better questions leads to deeper understanding and why forcing Jesus into every Old Testament passage can sometimes do more harm than good.
Bradley also shares his personal story—growing up in the Five Percent Nation, a movement that sees the Black man as divine, and how a surprising mentorship relationship led him to faith in Jesus. His journey from deep skepticism to biblical scholarship gives him a unique perspective on how to approach scripture without assumptions or shortcuts.
The conversation explores how biblical authors thought, why Jesus himself had to read scripture in context, and how reading the Bible as a tension-filled conversation—rather than a collection of easy answers—can reshape faith and theology.
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Hakeem Bradley's Contenthttps://hakeembradley.substack.com/
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Chapters:00:00 Introduction 02:08 Navigating Questions on Creation and Biblical Interpretation 06:01 The Role of Tension in Understanding Scripture 10:01 Hakeem's Journey from Five Percenter to Follower of Jesus 18:31 The Importance of the Old Testament in Understanding Jesus 22:15 Personal Journeys in Biblical Understanding 23:11 The Challenge of Connecting Old Testament to Jesus 25:50 Understanding Biblical Texts on Their Own Terms 29:31 The Role of the Bible Project in Modern Scholarship 33:34 Exploring the Catholic Epistles and Their Significance 38:47 Intertextual Connections in Biblical Texts

The Contemporary Worship Music Pipeline, or "Where Did The Psalms Go?" (Marc Jolicoeur) Ep. #189

Who decides what worship songs we sing in church? It turns out, worship music is a massive industry, and the way songs make it from a Nashville songwriting room to a Sunday morning service might surprise you.
In this episode, Marc Jolicoeur joins The Biblical Mind Podcast to break down the business of contemporary worship music (CWM). He explains how four major megachurches dominate the industry, why most modern worship songs are written by teams of professionals rather than individual artists, and how CCLI licensing and copyright structures shape what gets sung in churches.
But is this market-driven approach shaping worship in unhealthy ways? Dru and Marc discuss whether the emotional tone of worship music has shifted, why lament and imprecatory psalms are almost absent from today’s songs, and whether churches should return to singing scripture itself.
Is the worship music we sing today more about marketing than theology? And what would happen if the Psalms were reintroduced into Sunday services?
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction00:27 The Landscape of Worship Music04:25 The Role of Songwriters and Publishing10:35 Market Penetration of Worship Songs16:33 The Influence of Megachurches on Worship Music21:11 The Evolution of Christian Music25:48 Worship Music vs. Performance Music28:38 The Role of Ritual in Worship31:28 Psalms and Their Relevance in Modern Worship35:29 Lament in Worship Music45:16 The Challenge of Lament in Worship49:55 Navigating Worship Leadership and Emotional Contexts54:44 Imprecatory Psalms and Modern Worship01:00:47 The Role of Specificity in Worship Lyrics

Listening to the Bible: Why Scripture Was Meant to Be Heard (Dru Johnson) Ep. #188

Most of us read the Bible with our eyes—but what if we’re missing something essential by not listening to it? In this episode, Dr. Dru Johnson challenges the modern tendency to engage Scripture primarily as a written text, arguing that the Bible was designed to be heard. From the Torah readings of Moses to the public proclamation of Paul's letters, Scripture has always been an aural experience—one meant to be absorbed in community rather than private, silent reading.
Dr. Johnson explains why listening changes how we understand Scripture, uncovering literary structures like repetition, parallelism, and chiasms that are far easier to hear than to see. He also explores the cognitive science behind reading vs. listening, showing why oral engagement helps us retain and interpret biblical texts more deeply.
Could reclaiming the practice of hearing Scripture together revolutionize the way we experience the Bible? This episode dives into why the church should return to communal listening, what ancient Jewish and Christian traditions teach us, and how modern worship services might be reshaped by putting Scripture at the center—not just as a text to analyze, but as a living word to hear.
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Chapters 00:00 Introduction 00:03 The Natural Habitat of Scripture 04:15 Hear and Obey in Hebrew - The Shema 09:05 Active Listening and Vigorous Discussion 10:17 Listening vs. Reading: A New Perspective

The Rapture, the Mark of the Beast, & Christian Eschatology—Fact & Fiction (Matt Halsted) Ep. #187

What if much of what we believe about the end times is shaped more by modern speculation than by biblical theology? In this episode, Dr. Matthew L. Halsted joins The Biblical Mind Podcast to debunk common misconceptions about eschatology, including the rapture, the mark of the beast, and the role of the Middle East in biblical prophecy.
Halsted and Dru Johnson explore how American Christianity has often read Revelation through a me-centered lens, focusing on personal fears rather than the broader biblical narrative of renewal and justice. They discuss the history of end-times speculation, tracing it from the 16th century to modern prophecy teachers, and why discipline in reading scripture is crucial to avoiding theological confusion.
Drawing from his book The End of the World as We Know It, Halsted unpacks how early Christians understood eschatology and why the Bible’s emphasis is not on escaping the world but on God’s renewal of creation.
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Chapters:00:00 Introduction 00:03 Understanding Eschatology in American Christianity 10:19 What Happens When You Die? 16:59 The Nature of Post-Mortem Existence 28:25 Its The End of The World As We Know It 29:06 Pandemic Fears and Speculations 31:17 The Mark of the Beast and Public Response 33:45 Dispensationalism, The Rapture, and Tim Lahaye 38:23 Rapture Theology and Its Implications 45:53 Political Dimensions of Eschatology 50:47 Future Projects and Research Directions

How Scripture Reads Scripture: Understanding Biblical Intertextuality (Brent Strawn) Ep. #186

How does the Bible interpret itself? In this episode, Dr. Brent Strawn joins The Biblical Mind Podcast to explore intertextuality—the ways biblical authors intentionally or unconsciously connect their writings to earlier texts. Strawn breaks down different types of intertextuality, from direct citations (like Jesus quoting Psalm 22) to subtle patterns that only emerge when we read scripture holistically.
Together with Dru Johnson, Strawn unpacks how intertextuality deepens biblical meaning and why recognizing these connections can transform the way we understand scripture. They also discuss the surprising link between Solomon and the Mark of the Beast (666) and how Revelation critiques imperial power using the legacy of Israel’s wealthiest king.
Strawn argues that biblical authors weren’t just making random allusions—they were teaching us how to read scripture well. If we can recognize these hyperlinks, we can move beyond surface-level readings and grasp the depth of biblical theology.
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Chapters00:00 Introduction 00:14 Understanding Intertextuality: Strong vs. Weak 02:07 The Unintentional Connections Between Texts 05:13 Patterns in Biblical Texts: A Deeper Look 08:08 Intertextuality and Its Interpretive Significance 11:10 Criteria for Evaluating Intertextual Connections 14:30 The Importance of Context in Scripture 17:19 The Dangers of Thin Intertextual Links 20:28 Exploring the Number 666 in Biblical Texts 26:13 Intertextuality and Biblical Texts 29:22 The Beast and Solomon: A Biblical Connection 33:13 Activating the Biblical Imagination 39:32 The Role of Scripture in Shaping Virtue 44:29 Hyperlinks in Revelation and Cultural References

American Christian Nationalism and the Way of Jesus (Caleb E. Campbell) Ep. #185

What if Christian nationalism isn’t a head problem but a heart problem? In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. Dru Johnson speaks with Caleb Campbell, author of Disarming Leviathan, about the rise of Christian nationalism in America and how Christians can engage this movement missionally rather than combatively.
Campbell discusses the anxieties that drive people to embrace Christian nationalism, highlighting the fear of pluralism, the longing for safety, and the allure of worldly power. Drawing from his experience as a pastor and cultural observer, he argues that many Christian nationalists are not inherently motivated by hatred but by a deep desire for rest and stability in a changing world.
The conversation delves into themes of hospitality, humble subversion, and the transformative power of the cross, challenging listeners to rethink how they approach those with opposing views. Campbell offers practical steps for engaging Christian nationalists, emphasizing the need for curiosity, safety, and scripture-centered dialogue.
Find Caleb E. Campbell at: Instagram handle: https://www.instagram.com/revcalebcampbellFacebook profile: https://www.facebook.com/caleb.campbell2X profile: https://www.twitter.com/calebphxBluesky profile: https://bsky.app/profile/revcalebcampbell.bsky.social
Find Disarming Leviathan at: https://www.ivpress.com/disarming-leviathan For more articles: https://thebiblicalmind.org/ Social Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HebraicThought/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hebraicthought/ X: https://www.twitter.com/HebraicThought/ Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/hebraicthought.org Chapters 00:00 Introduction 00:03 Exploring the Good Impulses of Christian Nationalism 10:18 The Dilemma of Power: Christian Leadership in Politics 23:22 Christian Nationalism: Ideology and Identity 32:23 The Means vs. The Ends: A Christian Perspective on Power 33:25 The Call for Unity and Protection 34:26 Christian Nationalism: A Critical Examination 35:22 Navigating Leadership as a Christian 36:44 The Role of Scripture in Decision Making 38:57 The Complexity of Power Dynamics 39:54 The Dilemma of Political Engagement 42:48 The Duality of Christian Identity 44:41 The Dangers of Christian Nationalism 47:39 Personal Experiences with Christian Nationalism 51:11 A Shift in Perspective: From Combat to Mission 54:43 Practical Steps for Engagement 57:47 Creating Safe Spaces for Dialogue 01:00:30 The Importance of Humility in Conversations

Joseph's Brothers Never Sold Him Into Slavery (Ari Lamm) Ep. #184

In this episode, Dr. Dru Johnson interviews Rabbi Dr. Ari Lamm about a provocative interpretation of the Joseph narrative: Joseph’s brothers did not sell him into slavery. Rabbi Lamm explains that while the brothers planned to sell Joseph, they never completed the act. Instead, Midianite merchants discovered Joseph in the pit and sold him to Ishmaelites, creating ambiguity in the biblical text.
Rabbi Lamm delves into the narrative techniques of the Hebrew Bible, emphasizing its minimalist yet profound storytelling. He discusses how key Hebrew words and repeated motifs, such as “sell” (Machar), link the Joseph story to broader biblical themes of chosenness, rejection, and familial dynamics. Joseph’s perception of rejection by his father, Jacob, is also explored, tying his emotional journey to the larger narrative of Genesis. The discussion highlights the development of key characters, including Judah’s moral growth and Reuben’s failure to lead.
These arcs foreshadow the future roles of the tribes of Israel, underscoring Genesis’s role as a foundational text for understanding biblical theology and history. This episode invites listeners to engage deeply with scripture, appreciate its narrative sophistication, and consider alternative interpretations that illuminate its enduring relevance.
Find Ari Lamm at:
https://twitter.com/arilamm https://twitter.com/gfaitheffort https://www.instagram.com/holy_landings
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction 02:40 Understanding Joseph's Silence 05:19 The Role of Dreams in Joseph's Life 08:12 The Emotional Revelation of Family 10:39 The Complexity of Selling Joseph 13:30 The Brothers' Journey of Growth 16:07 The Consequences of Actions 18:52 The Legacy of the Tribes 21:42 The Moral Implications of the Sale 24:37 The Brothers' Guilt and Recognition 25:58 The Brothers' Guilt and Joseph's Plea 27:38 The Pit: A Place of Despair 30:10 The Brothers' Plan and Reuben's Dilemma 33:36 The Caravan and the Brothers' Decision 37:07 Reuben's Return and the Aftermath 41:42 The Complexity of Joseph's Journey 45:28 Understanding the Text: Insights and Interpretations 45:51 Learning Hebrew: Resources and Recommendations

The State of Hebraic Thought in 2025 (Dru Johnson) Ep. #183

In this episode, Dr. Dru Johnson and Mike Tolliver reflect on the growth and challenges of Hebraic thought over the past year and explore its future trajectory in 2025. They highlight recent scholarly advancements, key publications, and practical tools that are shaping the field. Dr. Johnson discusses notable books, including Human Divine Interactions in the Hebrew Scriptures by Beryl Dove Lerner and Just Discipleship by Michael Rhodes, which integrate Hebraic thought into contemporary issues such as justice and divine-human relationships. Resources like the Bible Project, Disciple Dojo, and Bible Dojo are emphasized for their contributions to making Hebraic thought accessible to diverse audiences. The episode also tackles challenges, including the oversaturation of content and the difficulty of discerning reliable voices. Dr. Johnson advocates for careful engagement with diverse perspectives and emphasizes the communal nature of Hebraic thought, encouraging listeners to study scripture collaboratively and critically. Looking ahead, the Center for Hebraic Thought plans to expand its offerings with online courses, workshops, and collaborative discussions that challenge traditional theological paradigms and realign them with biblical insights. This forward-looking conversation underscores the vibrancy and relevance of Hebraic thought in academic and faith communities.
Articles:
Philosophical Engagement with the Hebrew Bible by Arthur Keefer https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1476993X221124950
The Hebrew Bible and The Philosophy of Religion by Jaco Gericke
https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt32bzm3
Books:
Human-Divine Interactions in the Hebrew Scriptures: Covenants and Cross-Purposes By Berel Dov Lerner https://www.routledge.com/Human-Divine-Interactions-in-the-Hebrew-Scriptures-Covenants-and-Cross-Purposes/Lerner/p/book/9781032539287
Flood and Fury: Old Testament Violence and the Shalom of God by Matthew J. Lynch (Portraying Violence in the Hebrew Bible) https://www.ivpress.com/flood-and-fury
Just Discipleship: Biblical Justice in an Unjust World by Michael J. Rhodes
https://www.ivpress.com/just-discipleship
Numbers: An Introduction and Commentary by Peter Altmann and Caio Peres https://www.christianbook.com/numbers-an-introduction-and-commentary/9780830842902/pd/842902
Reading the Old Testament as Christian Scripture: A Literary, Canonical, and Theological Survey by Mark S. Gignilliat (Author), Heath A. Thomas (Author) https://bakeracademic.com/p/reading-the-old-testament-as-christian-scripture-mark-s-gignilliat/598786
Jesus and the Law of Moses: The Gospels and the Restoration of Israel within First-Century Judaism by Paul T. Sloan (Author) http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/jesus-and-the-law-of-moses/415310
Paul the Storyteller: A Narratological Approach by Christoph Heilig https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802878953/paul-the-storyteller/
Wine, Soil, and Salvation in the Hebrew Bible and New Testament By Mark Scarlata https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/wine-soil-and-salvation-in-the-hebrew-bible-and-new-testament/1C1B582958A9591ACE009889987EB238
Paul and the Resurrection of Israel By Jason Staples https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/paul-and-the-resurrection-of-israel/E88A324A84EB7F7533F23817E4FF17AD
Cursing with God: The Imprecatory Psalms and the Ethics of Christian Prayer By Trevor Laurence https://www.baylorpress.com/9781481316477/cursing-with-god/
Organizations:
Theopolis: https://theopolisinstitute.com/
Disciple Dojo: https://www.youtube.com/@DiscipleDojo
BibleProject: https://bibleproject.com/ Learning/
Software:
Aleph with Beth: https://www.youtube.com/@AlephwithBeth
BibLingo: https://biblingo.org/
BibleDojo: https://www.enterthebibledojo.com/
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
02:13 Recent Scholarly Contributions to Hebraic Thought
07:20 Diverse Resources and Authors in Hebraic Thought
15:33 Organizations and Platforms Supporting Hebraic Thought
23:31 Tools and Resources for Understanding Hebraic Thought
29:45 Navigating the Challenges of Hebraic Thought
34:54 The Importance of Questioning and Community Engagement
45:07 Evaluating Influential Voices in Hebraic Thought