The Biblical Mind

A Jewish View of the Afterlife in the Hebrew Bible (Jeremiah Unterman)

For Christians accustomed to certain ideas of heaven and hell, other views of the afterlife in Scripture may seem strange. But Jewish views of the afterlife have a storied and fascinating tradition of their own. In this episode, Dru is joined by Dr. Jeremiah Unterman, Senior Fellow at the Center for Hebraic thought. They discuss Jewish views of the afterlife from the ancient to modern times, encountering the concepts of sheol, ruach, gehenna, immortality, and judgment. Dr. Unterman offers perspectives on the story of Saul and the Necromancer, the phrase "gathered to their fathers," burial practices of the ancient Near East, and the role that theodicy plays in developing Jewish views of the afterlife.
Jerry Unterman is a Resident Scholar at the Herzl Institute, former professor (Yeshiva University, Northwestern University, and others), an author, and Senior Fellow at the Center for Hebraic Thought. In 2017, he released Justice for All: How the Jewish Bible Revolutionized Ethics, a look at the influence of the Hebrew Scriptures on the values and practices of the modern world.
Show notes:
0:00 Sheol and polytheism
1:37 Egyptian versus Hebraic views of the afterlife
4:09 Death in the Torah and Psalms
6:07 The Necromancer of Endor
9:18 Burial and "raising up"
13:20 Hellenistic Judaism
17:13 The idea of the soul and the world to come
21:46 Greek versus Hebrew thought in the Apocrypha
24:30 Medieval and Modern Jewish perspectives on the afterlife
29:08 Looking at the New Testament
33:40 The Talmud on Gehenna
Show notes by Micah Long
Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Thinking Biblically about Institutions (Ari Lamm)

The Bible tells stories about individuals, families, and nations. But it also tells stories about institutions—the chosen and unchosen social structures that range from marriage, to news media, to the Supreme Court. Today, many people see major institutions as weak, corrupt, or untrustworthy (sometimes correctly). In this episode, Dru welcomes Rabbi Dr. Ari Lamm back to the podcast for the fourth time to discuss the idea of institutions in the Hebrew Bible. Ari surveys the role of institutions the biblical narratives, looking at the earliest chapters of Genesis, the story of Abraham, the golden calf narrative, and the nations of Egypt and Babylon. They also discuss the right response to broken and corrupt institutions, the dangers of "spiritual highs," and the corrective role of prophetic voices.
Rabbi Dr. Ari Lamm is the CEO of Bnai Zion, an organization that aims to strengthen Israel and Jewish people, as well as the host of Good Faith Effort, a podcast that examines the Bible and its interactions with society. He studied Judaism and Christianity at University College London and Princeton University, and received his rabbinical ordination at the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary. He frequently writes and speaks about Jewish values and their positive impact on the world.
Show notes:
0:00 The biblical view of institutions
2:30 Biblical "false starts"
7:15 Abraham and the Bronze Age
10:07 How institutions come to exist
14:27 Unchosen obligations
19:40 Egypt and Babylon
23:38 Being born into corrupt systems
27:22 Spiritual awakenings and religious practices
34:08 The most important verse in the Bible
36:36 The political structure of biblical Israel
44:48 Dealing with broken institutions
Show notes by Micah Long

The Bonhoeffer of Ethiopia (Abeneazer Urga)

Amid persecution from the Marxist state and a fragmented Ethiopian church, Gudina Tumsa became a figure who advocated a holistic theology of justice, church unity in Ethiopia, and the health and strength of the church more broadly. In this episode, Dru asks Abeneazer Urga about his book The Bonhoeffer of Africa, a biography of Ethiopian theologian Gudina Tumsa. Tumsa's life has brought him comparisons to Martin Luther King, Jr. and Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Along the way, Dru and Abeneazer discuss the state of the church in Ethiopia, from its fourth-century roots to its Christological theology to the way the Western church differs from the modern Ethiopian church.
Abeneazer Urga teaches at the Evangelical Theological College in Ethiopia and is a member of Equip International. He specializes in New Testament and Missiology and has done work exploring holistic theology and theology from an African perspective.
Show notes:
0:00 The history of Christianity in Ethiopia
3:35 Modern Ethiopian Christianity
6:11 Christology in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church
9:32 The persecution and influences of Gudina Tumsa
15:57 Tumsa in the United States
20:41 Practicing holistic theology
22:50 Unity of the Ethiopian church
25:53 The evangelical movement in Ethiopia
28:20 Tumsa and the youth of Ethiopia
29:55 Abeneazer's experience in modern Ethiopia and the United States
Show notes by Micah Long
Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

ICYMI: What Is the Point of Prayer? Does It Change God’s Mind? (John C. Peckham)

This episode was originally published in July, 2021. We thought it was worth a reissue for our newer listeners.
If God is sovereign, what is the point of prayer? Is it merely a meditative exercise, or do our petitions shape the outcome of history?
Prayer is a ritual and relational device Christians use to communicate with God. God is open to the requests of all people everywhere and actually wants to bring mercy and blessings instead of judgment—but that doesn’t mean that the function of prayer is simple to understand. Prayer is a nuanced activity. In this conversation, Dru Johnson and John C. Peckham answer a variety of questions surrounding prayer. Does God hear the prayers of people outside of the lineage of Israel? Can God act in contradiction to His promises and His Word if we pray for it? Does a person's character affect how God answers their prayers?
Show notes:
0:00 Why pray to God?
3:33 What did the biblical authors think of prayer?
9:03 Effective prayers
14:25 Do we get all we pray for?
23:44 What is the role of hope?
Show notes by Serena Tuomi.
Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

The Dangers of Celebrity in the Church (Katelyn Beaty)

We live in a fame-saturated culture. Celebrity figures run our largest corporations, media entities, and megachurches. But the characteristics of celebrity—unquestioned authority, dynamic public personas, and tendency toward abuse—make it a dangerous feature in Christian churches. Recent stories about abusive, exploitative celebrity pastors have spotlighted this fact.
In this episode, Katelyn Beaty discusses her new book Celebrities for Jesus: How Personas, Platforms, and Profits Are Hurting the Church. She identifies the key features of fame and celebrity that infect every element of our culture and diagnoses their central issues, including secrecy, self-promotion, anger, and pride. She asks whether the business world has become the model for the church and whether the American church is unique in its elevation of celebrity pastors. The church needs to know the dangers of celebrity and find ways to remain accountable in its pursuit of the gospel.
Show notes:
0:00 Seeking versus receiving fame
2:14 Celebrity and self-promotion
4:48 When the platform becomes the point
9:00 Public personality and false intimacy
12:21 Billy Graham and the Modesto Manifesto
18:06 Anger, narcissism, leadership, and celebrity
21:35 Privacy versus secrecy
24:40 Church boards
28:23 American megachurches
34:21 Avoiding celebrity pastors
Show notes by Micah Long
Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Forming Trauma-Safe Churches (Scott Harrower and Joshua Cockayne)

We hear the word "trauma" a lot today—but what does it really mean? For Christians who have experienced horrific, overwhelming, life-threatening events events, the church can be a place either of fear or of healing. In this episode, Scott Harrower and Joshua Cockayne discuss their new book Dawn of Sunday: The Trinity and Trauma-Safe Churches (written with Preston Hill). They examine attitudes and practices that help us recognize, accept, and respond to traumatized individuals within the church. As the church becomes a community of help and safety, and as its members grow in Christlikeness, it can become a haven for the traumatized and vulnerable.
Scott Harrower is a Lecturer in Christian Thought at Ridley College and an ordained Anglican minister. He writes on the history of early Christianity and philosophical issues such as the problem of evil. Joshua Cockayne is a Divinity Honorary Lecturer at the University of St. Andrews. His research focuses on spirituality and ecclesiology, and he works in the area of analytic theology.
Show notes:
0:00 Distinguishing trauma from other kinds of pain or distress
3:20 Commonplace horrors and their effects
5:35 Writing Dawn of Sunday
8:26 Seeing and responding to grief
11:38 Responsible practices for dealing with trauma
14:49 Making church a safe place
20:21 Symptoms of trauma
26:00 The church as a community of help
31:03 Aiding those who are experiencing ongoing trauma
Show notes by Micah Long
Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Repentance in Deed and Word (Shalom Carmy)

We all desire repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation. But these concepts are complicated, and seeing them from a Jewish perspective on biblical law can provide a fresh perspective to non-Jews. In this episode, the discussion of repentance and forgiveness continues with Rabbi Shalom Carmy and Dru Johnson. They distinguish between the action of repentance and the intention of repentance and question whether you can really reconcile without both. They also consider group forgiveness, and whether any one member of a group can facilitate reconciliation on behalf of the group. Growing in these practices, and doing them biblically, requires sustained and frequent reflection on their significance.
Shalom Carmy is Assistant Professor of Jewish Philosophy and Bible at Yeshiva University. He specializes in biblical interpretation and modern Jewish thought, and writes for several religious and Jewish publications. He previously wrote “And God Saw Their Deeds”: Biblical Repentance in Action (and Less So in Feeling) for The Biblical Mind.
Show notes:
0:00 Actions versus words
3:32 Repentance and forgiveness for groups
7:00 Forgiveness in the Holocaust
13:03 Commanding repentance
17:28 Yom Kippur
20:39 Regret, confession, and resolve
26:17 Progressing in repentance
28:08 The inner experience of reconciliation
32:27 What is real forgiveness?
Show notes by Micah Long
Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Q&A Series: Is There Marriage in Heaven? (Dru Johnson)

From Genesis, marriage looks like it is one of the most important parts of creation. So, does Jesus really say in Luke 20 that there will be no "marrying and giving in marriage" in the new heavens and earth? In the first episode of The Biblical Mind Q&A series, Dru Johnson examines the phrase "marrying and giving in marriage" across Scripture—and what Jesus really meant by it.
In Luke 20, the Sadducees approach Jesus and ask about a woman who had multiple husbands. Jesus' response might seem to suggest that no one is married in the age of resurrection. Dru argues that Luke has in mind a broader, more subtle point about the resurrection and the end of the world.
Dru Johnson is the Director for the Center of Hebraic Thought, the host of The Biblical Mind Podcast, and an Associate Professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at The King's College. He is also the author of the recent book Biblical Philosophy: A Hebraic Approach to the Old and New Testaments.
Show notes:
0:00 Introduction—is there marriage in heaven?
2:43 Marriage as part of the structure of creation
4:10 Examining Luke 20
10:14 The purpose of Luke's gospel
14:35 Luke 17: "Marrying and giving in marriage"
21:21 Why Jesus isn't actually talking about marriage
Show notes by Micah Long
Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Discussing the New CHT Book on Gender in the Bible (Feat. 3 of the Contributors)

This episode previews the CHT's new book The Biblical World of Gender: The Daily Lives of Ancient Women and Men. Three of the authors from the book (Carmen Imes, Nijay Gupta, and Cynthia Shafer-Elliott) discuss their contributions. They touch on the gender assumptions in the ancient Near East and Roman Empire, along with some of the Bible's challenging passages about slavery and authority.
Carmen Imes is Associate Professor of Old Testament at Biola University and the author of Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters. She has been a missionary to the Philippines and releases "Torah Tuesday" videos on her YouTube channel. Nijay Gupta is Professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary, Editor-in-Chief of the Bulletin for Biblical Research, and the author of Paul and the Language of Faith. Cynthia Shafer-Elliott is Associate Dean and Associate Professor in the School of Theology and Leadership at William Jessup University. She does archaeological research on ancient Israel, including households, food preparation, and gender dynamics in the family, and is an editor of the recent T&T Clark Handbook of Food in Ancient Israel and the Hebrew Bible.
Show notes:
Carmen Imes
0:00 Why we need to examine the biblical authors' view of gender
3:42 The "sanctified imagination" and entering into the biblical story
5:20 A selection from Carmen Imes's essay "Freedom Fighters of the Exodus"
Nijay Gupta
9:07 Understanding Paul's "harshness"
11:58 The biblical authors on the rape of slaves
14:15 Examples of radical early Christian ethics
16:26 Gender differences in the first-century Roman Empire
Cynthia Shafer-Elliott
18:48 The importance of household archaeology
21:19 Understanding the cultural assumptions of the biblical texts
25:44 Hierarchy versus heterarchy
Show notes by Micah Long
Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

ICYMI: How the Translation of ’Faith’ in the Bible Falls Short (Matt Bates)

This episode was originally published in March, 2021. We thought it was worth a reissue for our newer listeners.
Many of us have learned definitions of faith, belief, and trust that merely concern internal mental states. We say we believe something when we mentally affirm its truth, and we say we trust God when we believe what the Bible says. But these introspective forms of faith aren't really what the biblical authors have in mind when they talk about faith in the Bible. For them, faith is more of a full-bodied allegiance to Jesus, a commitment to serve and work alongside Him as our King.
In this episode, Dr. Matthew Bates talks to Dru Johnson about allegiance and faith in the Bible. They consider how, in the context of the Roman empire, the idea of loyalty in patron–client relationships shaped the way the biblical authors understood trust, authority, and honor. Along the way, they also discuss some of the biblical metaphors for salvation that are drawn from the social dynamics of the ancient world, and how the Hebrew Bible influenced the New Testament's view of power and authority. They conclude by outlining about how modern people can understand the language of kingdom and lordship in Scripture, and how the church can inculcate rituals of allegiance in the body of Christ.
Show notes:
0:00 Trusting with our bodies, not just with our minds
3:55 The word pistis in the Roman world
6:50 Metaphorical language to describe our salvation
9:48 What allegiance looks like
14:15 How to think about Jesus' lordship
17:46 Continuity between the New Testament and the Hebrew Bible
20:00 Allegiance rituals in the church
Learn more about Matt Bates.
Matthew Bates's most recent book: Gospel Allegiance: What Faith in Jesus Misses for Salvation in Christ
Show notes by Micah Long.
Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.