The Biblical Mind

Israel’s Rituals, God’s Needs, and the Covenant That Changed Everything (John Walton) Ep. #223

What happens when a senior biblical scholar changes their mind—publicly? In this episode, Dr. John Walton returns to explain key shifts in his thinking, especially about Genesis, the temple, and covenant theology.
He unpacks two major paradigm shifts: first, that Genesis creation isn’t about material origins, but about functional order; second, that Genesis 3 isn’t even about sin—it’s about humanity’s search for order. He also revisits his earlier view that the cosmos should be seen as a temple, now offering a more nuanced perspective: “I’m very happy to think about this as establishing sacred space… without necessarily extending the temple metaphor to the concept of boundaries.”
Walton explains how ancient Near Eastern concepts shape the biblical text, but cautions against overgeneralizing differences between Israel and its neighbors. “God does not have needs. Don’t think that way. Everybody else around you thinks that way.” He argues Israel’s rituals weren’t about feeding the deity, but forming covenant relationship—and this, he claims, is unique in the ancient world.
More than anything, Walton champions a commitment to evidence over dogma. “If your commitment is to the evidence, your commitment has to be to cognitive flexibility.”
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Chapters:
00:00 Paradigm Shifts in Biblical Interpretation03:03 The Temple and Creation05:45 Understanding Ancient Near Eastern Thought08:45 Cognitive Flexibility in Scholarship11:58 Rituals and Their Significance14:54 The Role of Ancient Near Eastern Backgrounds17:54 Literary Structures in Biblical Texts

Cultural Rivers, Order, and Covenant: Tools For Reading Scripture Well (John Walton) Ep. #222

In this thought-provoking episode, Walton explains his “cultural rivers” metaphor—how each culture swims in its own current of values, assumptions, and logic. We can’t read the Bible through modern, Western eyes without missing what mattered most to ancient audiences. Genesis, for example, isn’t about material origins but about God bringing order to a disordered world.
From Genesis 1–11, which Walton calls a unified pursuit-of-order narrative, to covenant as God’s chosen method of establishing order in Israel, this episode reshapes how we think about law, sin, impurity, and even concepts like raʿ (evil). Walton shows how words like shalom, menucha, and tov are all part of a spectrum of order—not morality.
He also addresses how Jesus and Paul recontextualize the Torah, why Exodus opens with a surprising parade of female heroes, and how poetry preserves communal memory in songs like Exodus 15. Whether you’re new to Walton’s “Lost World” series or a longtime reader, this episode offers fresh insight into how Scripture’s deepest themes emerge from its ancient context.
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Chapters:
00:00 Exploring Methodological Approaches to Texts02:02 Cultural Rivers: Understanding Context in Ancient Texts05:19 Genesis 1-11: The Pursuit of Order08:04 The Role of Women in Exodus: A Unique Perspective11:04 Intertextuality: Connections Between Genesis and Judges14:12 The Concept of Order in the Torah17:10 Jesus and Paul: Recontextualizing the Torah20:16 The Significance of Women in the Exodus Narrative23:20 Joseph and Daniel: Conceptual Connections26:07 Final Thoughts and Future Discussions32:50 Poetry And Prose Intermixed

Unlocking The Deep Structures of Scripture: The Bible's Unified Message (Joshua Berman) Ep. #221

What if the Bible was written with deep structural patterns designed to echo across generations—economically and theologically?
In this riveting episode, Dr. Joshua Berman joins Dru Johnson to reveal how literary design, verbal repetition, and cultural continuity make the Bible not a patchwork, but a carefully composed unity. Through examples ranging from Genesis and Judges to Exodus and Samuel, Berman shows how the same words, images, and narrative arcs—like “sword and bow” or reversal of blessing—carry deliberate echoes and layered meanings across the text.
They also explore gendered storytelling in Exodus 2, the function of poetry in biblical prose, and why embedded songs like Exodus 15 don’t contradict the narrative—they expand it. Berman explains how ancient readers trained in repetition and orality would have caught these cues instantly, and why modern readers miss them.
This episode is also a personal one, as Berman shares how leading Jewish tours in Egypt deepened his faith in the biblical text—and even led to unexpected moments of hope across religious and national divides.
This is a masterclass in reading Scripture deeply—linguistically, literarily, and spiritually.
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Chapters:00:00 Exploring Methodology in Biblical Texts04:06 Understanding Deep Structures in Scripture09:15 The Role of Language and Translation14:21 Genesis: Unity and Structure19:02 Theological Implications of Interwoven Narratives21:56 Exploring Sodom and Gomorrah's Legacy27:11 The Role of Women in Exodus33:09 Contradictions in Moses' Life39:23 Archeological Work In Egypt

Attachment Theory, God’s Presence, & The Image of God: How God Heals Us (Geoff Holsclaw) Ep. #220

What does attachment theory have to do with discipleship, theology, or the church? According to Dr. Geoff Holsclaw, more than we realize.
In this episode, Holsclaw—a pastor, theologian, and co-author of Landscapes of the Soul—joins Dru Johnson to explore how neuroscience and interpersonal attachment can illuminate both human development and the biblical story. From early childhood bonds to the way we experience God’s presence, he explains how secure and insecure attachments shape how we relate to others, ourselves, and the divine.
The conversation dives into the four “attachment landscapes” (Jungle, Desert, War Zone, and Secure), and how trauma or neglect in childhood can subtly shape a lifetime of relational patterns—unless there is healing. But the episode offers real hope: not only is repair possible, but Scripture itself shows us the way. Holsclaw connects attachment theory to key biblical moments—from God’s face in the Psalms to Jesus’ sending of the disciples.
This is not a self-help take on neuroscience. It’s a theologically rich exploration of embodied faith, community healing, and how God repairs the ruptures in our lives.
To get your copy of Landscapes Of The Soul:https://www.tyndale.com/p/landscapes-of-the-soul/9798400505546
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Chapters:
00:00 Neuroscience in Counseling and Theology06:19 Understanding Attachment Theory14:04 The Impact of Attachment Styles20:13 Scriptural Foundations of Attachment26:26 Jesus and Attachment Dynamics33:50 Healing and Growth in Attachment40:57 Community and Relationships in Healing

Pharisees, Torah, and Sacrifice: What We Miss When We Misread the Law (Paul Sloan) Ep. #219

Did Jesus come to cancel the Law of Moses—or fulfill it? In this compelling episode, Dr. Paul Sloan joins Dru Johnson to challenge one of the most persistent misunderstandings in modern Christianity: the idea that Jesus and Paul opposed the Torah.
Drawing from his book Jesus and the Law of Moses, Sloan explains how legalism, misunderstanding of impurity, and modern Christian readings of Paul have distorted our view of the biblical law. Instead of a rigid checklist of 613 rules, the Torah was a wisdom-guided, relational framework that assumed the realities of sin, forgiveness, and impurity—and offered ways to address them.
They explore how Jesus engaged in sophisticated legal reasoning, why Paul continued to participate in the temple sacrificial system even after his conversion, and why the “burden” of the law has been misunderstood. Sloan also critiques how Pharisees are caricatured as villains, with damaging theological consequences—especially for how Christians view modern Jews and Judaism.
This episode brings clarity to what Jesus and Paul were really doing with the law—and why recovering this perspective is crucial for theology, biblical interpretation, and interfaith understanding today.
To get your copy of Jesus And The Law Of Moses:https://bakerpublishinggroup.com/products/9781540966384_jesus-and-the-law-of-moses
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Chapters:
00:00 Understanding the Law and Jesus' Perspective02:22 Hurdles in Understanding the Law05:13 Legalism and Its Misinterpretations08:20 The Case for Jesus and Paul Abolishing the Torah11:35 Exploring Dietary Laws and Their Implications14:33 The Nature of Law and Forgiveness17:31 Ritual Purity and Its Misconceptions20:24 Pharisees: Villains or Misunderstood Figures?23:25 Modern Implications of Ancient Interpretations24:43 Paul's Observance of the Torah25:33 The Role of Sacrifices in Early Christianity31:40 Jesus and the Sacrificial System34:04 Cultural Critique: Rabbinics and Jesus' Teachings

Is "Eye For An Eye" Christian? Jesus, Justice, and The Limits of Vengeance (Dru Johnson) Ep. #218

“Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.” We’ve all heard the phrase—but what does it actually mean in the Bible? In this episode, Mike Tolliver and Dr. Dru Johnson unpack the principle of Talion—Lex Talionis—and show why it’s one of the most misunderstood elements of biblical justice.
They trace the concept across Leviticus, Exodus, and Deuteronomy, exploring how this principle wasn’t about vengeance or equal retaliation, but a wisdom-guided restraint on power and a warning to those in authority: “Don’t abuse the vulnerable.” Far from being a hard legal code, eye-for-eye was a principle, surrounded by interpretive examples—not a statute for rigid enforcement.
The conversation moves from the Torah to Jesus’ teachings in Matthew 5, where Jesus isn’t rejecting the Old Testament, but interpreting it through its own inner logic. Jesus deepens the Torah’s call: instead of demanding retaliation, he teaches mercy and vulnerability—mirroring the Torah’s own ethic of protecting the powerless.
From ancient village courts to modern Twitter mobs, this episode challenges us to rethink how justice, mercy, and retaliation intersect in biblical ethics—and in our own lives.
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Chapters:00:00 Understanding Biblical Justice: The Principle of Talion02:13 Exploring the Context of Eye for an Eye05:15 The Role of Retributive and Restorative Justice08:26 Examining the Instances of Lex Talionis11:20 The Implications of Class in Biblical Law13:45 The Shift in Perspective: Power Dynamics in Justice16:36 Witnesses and the Nature of Justice19:39 God's Role in Justice and Retribution22:22 Connecting Lex Talionis to the Imago Dei25:41 Jesus and the Fulfillment of the Law28:32 The Kingdom of Heaven: A New Perspective on Justice31:28 The Floor and Ceiling of Biblical Law34:43 Practical Applications of Biblical Justice Today

Feasting on Hope: Sacraments, Trauma, and Formation in the Church (Hannah King) Ep. #217

Is communion just a symbolic snack—or a mysterious, formative act of grace?
In this episode, Rev. Hannah King, an Anglican priest and author of the upcoming Feasting on a Hope: How God Sets a Table in the Wilderness, joins Dru Johnson to explore why the Lord’s Supper is essential for the Christian life.
Hannah shares her journey from evangelical church spaces into Anglicanism, unpacking how the Eucharist re-centered her understanding of salvation as bodily, communal, and ongoing. She shares deeply personal stories—of trauma, grief, and healing—that reveal how the sacrament offers more than information: it offers union with Christ.
Together, they tackle difficult questions: Will weekly communion become rote? Why is the Eucharist so often sidelined in modern worship? What do we gain when we treat the Table as the center, not the add-on? And how does this sacrament speak to survivors, children, skeptics, and the spiritually weary?Hannah reminds us that even when we feel nothing, the Table is still doing its work. Like Sabbath and marriage, it shapes us slowly—but surely.
For more on Hannah's work:https://www.hannahmillerking.com/
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Chapters:00:00 Understanding Barriers to Worship03:06 The Role of Liturgy in Worship06:14 The Nature of Worship Experience08:58 Structure of Anglican Worship12:11 The Importance of the Eucharist15:07 Embodied Faith and Redemption22:21 Exploring the Nature of the Soul and Body24:40 The Familial Nature of Faith and Community26:20 The Dynamics of Church and Class28:12 Rituals, Liturgy, and Their Impact on Worship30:31 The Eucharist: A Meal of Fellowship and Equality35:18 Embracing Mystery in the Lord's Supper39:25 The Centrality of the Eucharist in Christian Worship

Theology in the Mother Tongue: Oral Bible Translation and Embodied Faith (Fausto Liriano) Ep. #216

What if the Bible isn’t something you read—but something you hear, memorize, and perform?
In this groundbreaking episode, Dr. Fausto Liriano shares his work translating the Bible into indigenous languages without writing it down. Through oral Bible translation projects in Guatemala, Mexico, and the Philippines, Dr. Liriano helps communities internalize Scripture in their own languages—through performance, storytelling, and memorization.
He explains how this work challenges not only Western assumptions about literacy and theology, but also confronts colonial patterns in missionary work, translation philosophy, and even what counts as “canonical” Scripture. The episode explores how indigenous languages often mirror Hebrew’s poetic ambiguity more than Spanish or English do, why repetition and redundancy are theological tools, and how people with no formal education are memorizing and performing hours of biblical material with precision and reverence.
Dr. Liriano also reflects on the need for contextual theology in Latin America—one that isn’t imported from the North, but developed by the people, for the people. He calls for a theology of corruption, of wholeness, and of embodied participation in God’s word.
For more on Fausto's work:https://translation.bible/staff-profile/fausto-liriano/
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Latin American Theology01:59 Misunderstandings of Latin American Theology04:47 The Need for Contextual Theology07:41 Corruption and Its Impact on Theology10:43 The Role of Indigenous Voices in Theology13:52 Oral Bible Translation in Guatemala16:47 The Value of Orality in Cultural Contexts25:08 Translating for Indigenous Cultures27:57 Exploring Orality in Biblical Texts30:13 The Process of Oral Bible Translation34:57 Community Engagement and Performance37:41 The Importance of Oral Tradition42:14 Navigating Colonialism and Canonization44:29 The Heart of Translation: Language and Connection

The Illusion of Intelligence: Why AI Can’t Replace Embodied Life (Noreen Herzfeld) Ep. #215

Is AI intelligent—or just artificial? In this provocative episode, Dr. Noreen Herzfeld, a rare scholar of both computer science and theology, joins Dru Johnson to expose what most people overlook about artificial intelligence. Drawing from her recent book The Artifice of Intelligence, she challenges the mythology of AGI (artificial general intelligence) and critiques the environmental, social, and theological costs of current AI use.
Herzfeld argues that large language models are plateauing and that the real danger isn’t a superintelligence—it’s our uncritical, energy-intensive use of biased software masquerading as neutral tools. She warns of AI’s water and fossil fuel demands, its disembodied affirmation loops, and the illusion that chatbots are viable substitutes for therapists, pastors, or friends.
Rooting her critique in Christian theology, Herzfeld defends the value of embodiment, human uniqueness, and community. She sees modern AI and transhumanist dreams as a return to ancient Gnostic heresies—disembodied, elitist, and ultimately dehumanizing.
This episode is essential for anyone navigating the ethical, spiritual, and ecological implications of AI. You’ll come away more equipped to use AI critically—and to resist the false promises of digital utopia.
For Noreen's Book "The Artifice of Intelligence":https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506486901/The-Artifice-of-Intelligence
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Chapters:00:00 The Current State of AI Technology02:21 Environmental Impact of AI07:55 Understanding AI and AGI16:36 The Dangers of Chatbots19:42 Embodiment and AI30:47 Future of AI and Its Societal Role

Becoming God’s Family: Against Church Hurt, Isolation, and Autonomy (Carmen Imes) Ep. #214

Can you be a Christian without the church? In this timely episode, Dr. Carmen Imes argues forcefully—and pastorally—that Christianity without community is a contradiction. Drawing from her new book Becoming God’s Family, she and Dru Johnson explore why so many people are walking away from church and what it would take to draw them back.
From church hurt to spiritual abuse to toxic celebrity culture, Carmen doesn’t shy away from the reasons people leave. But she also offers theological and pastoral wisdom on why we can’t give up on the church. They explore biblical stories of failed community, why Hagar’s story matters, and what healthy faithfulness looks like in a flawed body.
They also discuss when it’s time to leave a church, how American and global cultures can distort biblical community, and why true belonging means discomfort, difference, and even lament. Drawing on stories from her life and ministry, Carmen makes the case that church isn’t about getting what we want—it’s about becoming who we’re meant to be.
For Carmen Imes' substack:https://substack.com/@carmenjoyimes
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Chapters:
00:00 The Importance of Community in Faith01:37 Addressing Church Disconnection Post-Pandemic04:22 The Role of Scripture in Community Dynamics07:17 Navigating Church Hurt and Abuse10:36 Finding Hope in Faithful Communities13:46 The Broader Picture of Church Life16:38 Understanding God's Family Beyond the Church18:39 The Power of Community and Discipleship20:03 Cultural Blind Spots and Family Loyalty21:42 The Radical Nature of Church Family25:24 The Ananias and Sapphira Lesson27:59 The Role of Green Rooms in Church31:10 Lamenting Together as a Family32:45 The Messiness of Community35:34 The Quest for Like-Mindedness37:32 Diversity in Church and Community41:58 Creative Solutions for Multicultural Worship