The Biblical Mind

Old—and New—Testament Violence and the Shalom of God (Matthew J. Lynch)

Readers of the Book of Joshua (and many other parts of the Bible) are inevitably confronted with the poblem of violence in Scripture. Texts referring to the destruction of whole cities or the killing of men, women, and children can cause us to question whether God is truly loving and just.
In this episode, Dr. Matt Lynch discusses violence in Scripture from his new book Flood and Fury: Old Testament Violence and the Shalom of God. He considers the difficulties with approaching violence from a modern perspective, the ways of reading the different violent accounts presented in Scripture, and how literally we should take biblical rhetoric. Plus, hear why being so-called "New Testament Christians" doesn't really distance us from violence in the Bible.
Dr. Lynch is an Associate Professor of Old Testament at Regent College in Vancouver. His research looks at issue of violence and the idea of monotheism in the biblical texts. Prior to his work at Regent, Matt taught at Westminster Theological Centre, Nashotah House, and Grand Rapids Theological Seminary. In addition, he founded and co-hosts the OnScript podcast.
Show notes:
0:00 Approaching violence in the Bible
3:50 Different cultural perspectives on violence
5:46 Violence for modern and ancient readers
10:25 Majority versus minority report
15:58 Idolatry in ancient Israel
18:53 Interpreting the Bible's rhetoric
23:40 The archaeology of Jericho
27:20 Christianity and violence
30:07 Joshua's challenges
34:14 Intermarriage
38:55 The primacy of some parts of Scripture
Show notes by Micah Long

ICYMI: Don’t Skip the Poems (Michelle Knight)

This episode was originally published on October, 2020. We thought it was worth a reissue for our newer listeners.
The poetry in Scripture can be hard to understand. And, especially when it is embedded within a story, such as the Song of Deborah, we might be tempted to skip over it. It uses a lot of allusion and metaphor and is pregnant with imagery and historical detail. We would rather the author just "get to the point" and give us a bullet-point summary. However, to ignore the stylistic force of biblical poetry (or any biblical genre) is to miss out on some of the deep theological underpinnings of the text.
In this episode, Dr. Michelle Knight, Assistant Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Languages at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, discusses biblical poetry and literary sensitivity to the genres of Scripture. She and Dr. Dru Johnson zoom in on the Song of Deborah in Judges and the violence it seems to celebrate, then expand to discuss Joshua and Judges more broadly. They cover biblical characterization, how the New Testament authors draw on motifs in Judges, and even compare Joshua to a Marvel movie. In the end, they aim to encourage us toward both theological understanding and literary prowess when we read the Bible.
Show notes:
0:00 Reading biblical poetry
2:24 Dru squeezes his rubber ducky
3:55 Violence in the Song of Deborah
8:51 The purpose of poetic devices in conveying meaning
12:42 Understanding the "rules" of poetry
15:18 The style of Joshua versus that of Judges
18:53 Joshua and Judges in the New Testament
21:45 Are Samson and Gideon heroes?
25:24 Understanding the character of Joshua
Read more about Michelle Knight.
Show notes by Micah Long.

The State of Jewish–Christian Relations (Pesach Wolicki)

Despite their shared foundations and concern for the Word of God, Christians and Jews rarely interact on the basis of faith in the modern world. Many Jewish communities, in response to centuries of antisemitism and persecution, have shielded themselves from Christians, while modern Christians often know very little about the Jewish faith.
Dru interviews Rabbi Pesach Wolicki about the state of relations between Christians and Jews. For Pesach, the Jewish faith centers on a universal mission to bless the whole world; as a result, his work focuses on sharing Judaism and Jewish readings of Scripture with Christians. They discuss thinkers from Maimonides to Luther, the way reading the Talmud can help Christians, and why tension still exists between Christians and Jews today. Plus, hear Pesach's critique of the popular worship song "Reckless Love."
Rabbi Pesach Wolicki is an Orthodox Rabbi whose work focuses on relations between Christians and Jews. Currently, he works as the Executive Director of the Center for Jewish–Christian Understanding and Cooperation. He has taught at churches, Christian colleges, and seminaries across North America, and writes regularly for various news outlets. He currently lives in Israel with his wife and eight children.
Show notes:
0:00 Jewish identity and its relation to Christianity
3:12 A kingdom of priests
5:45 Maimonides and the Messiah
9:55 Reading Scripture with Christians
14:48 Talmudic readings
19:44 Wolicki's method for reading the Bible
21:38 Historical perspective and current tension
29:52 Reckless love?!?
31:50 How Christians can start to understand Jews
Show notes by Micah Long

The Unwritten Word: Learning from High Orality-Reliant Cultures (Charles Madinger)

Western culture relies extensively on written text to communicate. But the majority of people across the world rely far less on reading than they do on speech, body language, story, images, and their other senses. Charles Madinger joins the podcast this week to explore the concept of orality—the multifaceted way in which people were created to communicate.
Though well-meaning pastors and missionaries may rely on three-point sermons and Bible translation projects, these efforts often miss the variety of ways that the active, living Word of God engages people's bodies and minds, in communities. Charles also examines Jesus' parables and the many ways God interacts with his people throughout Scripture, how McDonald's might do a better job communicating than most pastors, and whether Gen Z is escaping the low orality-reliance of Western culture.
Dr. Charles Madinger is the Founder and Director of the Institutes for Orality Strategies, a collective of organizations committed to evangelizing to oral communicators. In addition to his scholarly publications in the field of orality, he has worked in global ministry for thirty years. He also serves the 4.2.20 Foundation as the Vice President of the Center for Oral Scriptures.
Show notes:
0:00 Inner and outer speech
5:00 How do we best communicate?
7:39 Memory and multi-sensory communication
13:55 High versus low orality-reliance
16:40 Abstract versus concrete
23:00 Communication in the Bible
27:52 Carrying the Word of God in our bodies
30:29 The Western mind
36:03 The Gutenberg parenthesis
39:00 Teaching like Jesus taught
Show notes by Micah Long

The First Christian Nation? Keeping Up with the Armenians (Heather Ohaneson)

Despite the rich history of Armenia as an ancient Christian community, many Christians know very little about the Armenian ethnicity, culture, nation, and faith. In this episode, Dru interviews Dr. Heather Ohaneson, pastor of Armenian Martyrs' Congregational Church, about Armenian history from the early days of the church until now, along with her experience as an evangelical Protestant Armenian pastor. They discuss the culture, language, and global migration of the Armenian people, and the aftermath of the Armenian genocide and recent conflicts on their nation. And yes, the Kardashians get a mention.
Dr. Heather Ohaneson is the pastor of Armenian Martyrs' Congregational Church in Havertown, Pennsylvania. She received her PhD in philosophy of religion from Columbia University, and taught at George Fox University and Azusa Pacific University. Currently, she is pursuing an MDiv at Princeton Theological Seminary and ordination in the United Church of Christ to continue to serve the Armenian Evangelical community.
Show notes:
0:00 The first Christian nation in history
4:44 The current conflict in Armenia
5:55 The Armenian language and dialects
6:49 The Armenian genocide
9:20 Modern Armenians
14:04 Protestant and evangelical churches
16:11 The gifts of Armenian Christianity
20:00 Heather Ohaneson's background
23:00 The spread of Armenian evangelical churches
Show notes by Micah Long

Jewish Identity, Deconstruction, and Misusing the Bible (Marty Solomon)

How do we approach the Bible? Do we see it merely as a "perfect rulebook"? A piece of literature to be picked apart? Or do we see it as something that threatens to transform us and upend our preconceptions, helping us live in accordance with God and His activity? In this episode, Dru interviews Marty Solomon, cohost, creator, and Executive Producer of The BEMA Podcast and President of Impact Campus Ministries, about his approach to reading and teaching the Bible. They consider different approaches to Scripture, from fundamentalism to textual criticism to deconstruction, and explore the ways each might shed more light on the text. They also explore how understanding Jewish identity (both ancient and modern) can present both opportunities and pitfalls for understanding Scripture.
Marty Solomon is an author, teacher, and resource creator who aims to help people read the Bible in its historical and Jewish context. Along with his work at The BEMA Podcast and Impact Campus Ministries, he has written a book called Asking Better Questions of the Bible: A Guide for the Wounded, Wary, and Longing for More (releasing February 7, 2023). He aims to bring the best of Christian history, modern scholarship, and discipleship to the church, especially college students, to help them love God and serve his kingdom.
Show notes:
0:00 Inerrancy versus inspiration
2:13 Asking the Bible hard questions
5:09 Torah obedience and Jewish identity
10:02 Modern Jewish Messianism
12:09 Eastern versus Western thought
14:30 Deconstruction and college ministry
17:49 Passion for investigating Scripture
21:33 Accountability and academia
28:00 How should we approach the Bible?
31:45 What gives Marty hope
Show notes by Micah Long.

Reading the Bible Like an Adult (Avital Hazony Levi)

How do we read the Bible like adults? For many people who grew up in communities of faith, the Bible stories have been a part of their lives for as long as they can remember. But it's often not until later in life that the richer meanings of the stories come alive, misconceptions are corrected, and the voices of the biblical authors become clearer—even as we relinquish naive certainties and the expectation of a black and white world.
In this episode, Dru interviews Dr. Avital Hazony Levi, instructor in Jewish philosophy and Bible at Midreshet Nishmat. They discuss everything from the nitty-gritty vocabulary of the story of Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar to the ways in which Western philosophical concepts threaten to drown out the voices of the biblical authors to the psychology of female characters in the Hebrew Bible. Along the way, they examine core biblical concepts such as loyalty, trust, responsibility, and generational sin.
Currently a postdoctoral fellow at Tel Aviv University, Avital has a rich background in both the Hebrew Bible and philosophy, and her work spans from moral epistemology to the nature of loyalty and worship. She has taught philosophy, Jewish thought, and Tanakh at Nishmat, TVA, and the Orthodox Union college summer program.
Show notes:
0:00 Reading the Bible like an adult
2:38 Abraham's loyalty
5:10 Why does Sarah give Hagar to Abraham?
11:33 Bitterness and faithlessness
17:00 Teaching the Bible in Hebrew
21:55 Free will and generational punishment
27:24 God's omniscience
30:19 Philosophical questions in the Bible
35:39 Responsibility and choice
40:49 The best thing about teaching
Show notes by Micah Long

Raising Chickens, Reading Scripture, and Running Governments, Reformed-Style (Jessica Joustra)

What does it mean for Christ to reign over every sphere of life? Many Christians relegate faith to "spiritual" activities, such as reading the Bible, going to church, and praying. However, the Christian tradition—and especially the Reformed tradition—can guide Christians in everything from personal ethics to politics to raising chickens.
In this episode, Dru talks with Jessica Joustra, Assistant Professor of Religion and Theology at Redeemer University, about the ideas of Reformed thinkers Abraham Kuyper and Herman Bavinck (as well as the ways that they draw on John Calvin). As Protestants, these men wanted to capture a faithful, traditional, and thorough way of reading the Bible; as 19th-century men, they strove to live as Christians in the modern world, both through public theology and through active participation in politics. The Reformed tradition offers rich ways of thinking about law, vocation, systemic sin, economics, and even America's contemporary political structures, all while remaining rooted in Scripture's conceptual world.
Jessica Joustra is an Assistant Professor of Religion and Theology at Redeemer University and Associate Researcher at the Neo-Calvinist Research Institute of the Theologische Universiteit Kampen. She teaches in the areas of Reformed theology and ethics, and has contributed to several works centered around Bavinck and Kuyper. Most recently, she and her husband (Robert Joustra) released Calvinism for a Secular Age: A Twenty-First Century Reading of Abraham Kuyper’s Stone Lectures.
Show notes:
0:00 Abraham Kuyper and Herman Bavinck
3:20 Radical shaping of vocation
7:46 God's sovereignty in ethics and politics
11:45 The Reformed tradition and biblical interpretation
14:09 Reformed and "small-c catholic"
17:26 Individual, social, and systemic ethics and sin
26:10 Modernism and politics
31:56 Principled pluralism
37:22 Christian nationalism and the Reformed tradition
43:00 Antithesis and common grace
Show notes by Micah Long

Most Popular Episode of 2022: ’Going to Heaven’ vs. Resurrection, the New Heavens, and the New Earth (J. Richard Middleton)

In case you missed it, this was our most popular episode of 2022. We hope this conversation encourages Christians with the biblical hope of the resurrection and the age to come.
What happens to you when you die? Many Christians picture eternal life as spending time in an ethereal heaven with God, either immediately after death as a disembodied spirit or after a "rapture" of Christians. Books and films, made by and for Christians, have promoted this idea of the afterlife.
Dr. J. Richard Middleton wants to challenge this particular view of the Christian afterlife. What happens immediately after we die does not much matter to the biblical authors; they concern themselves with proclaiming the hope of the eventual resurrection and preaching the Kingdom of God. In this episode, he discusses common words in our theological vernacular—spirit, soul, resurrection, hell, heaven, etc.—and challenges us to rethink them through a biblical lens. The story of the Bible is not the story of what happens between death and resurrection, but the story of the "redemption of the world."
Dr. Middleton is Professor of Biblical Worldview and Exegesis at Roberts Wesleyan College. He specializes in the Christian worldview, Christianity and postmodernism, Old Testament Theology, and eschatology. His most recent book is A New Heaven and a New Earth: Reclaiming Biblical Eschatology.
Show notes:
0:00 Introductions, N.T. Wright, and the redemption of the world
3:48 Reactions to debunking the rapture
4:57 "What happens to you when you die?"
7:59 God's glory entering the world
10:45 Spiritual versus physical
13:24 The hope of the resurrection
16:42 Believing you go to heaven when you die
18:32 Purgatory, limbo, and the grave
21:03 Resuscitation versus resurrection
25:20 The resurrection, final judgment, and hell
Show notes by Micah Long
Credits for the music used in TBM podcast can be found at: hebraicthought.org/credits.

Paying Attention to the People, Places, and Things in the Bible (Kat Armstrong)

Christians know that we should read the Bible. But often, the "should" eclipses the "why"—the fact that Scripture presents a unified, powerful, mysterious story written by God for the benefit of his people.
In this episode, Dru interviews Kat Armstrong, a Bible teacher, speaker, and author who aims to cultivate joyful, imaginative reading of Scripture. The Bible contains rich networks of imagery, but we must read carefully to notice them. Kat's new Bible study series, Storyline Bible Series, takes a deep dive into some of the recurring motifs in Scripture, from mountains and valleys to sticks and stones. Additionally, Kat discusses how her son helps her pay closer attention to the Bible, why the Bible isn't an instruction manual, and how Scripture eschews dividing its characters into "good guys" and "bad guys."
Kat Armstrong is a Bible teacher from Dallas who is passionate about helping people develop holy curiosity and delve more deeply into the story of the Bible. Her work includes speaking at events and conferences and writing books and Bible studies. You can find out more about her at her website.
Show notes:
0:00 A message from Dru Johnson
2:05 Scripture as one unified story
3:34 How to read the details of Scripture
7:14 Getting "fresh eyes"
8:31 Enthusiasm for the Bible
12:05 Kat's experience at Dallas Seminary
15:18 Appreciating the artistic brilliance of Scripture
21:00 Tracking the connections in Scripture
24:12 Is biblical imagery just coincidental?
28:28 Mountains in the biblical narrative
31:48 Kat Armstrong's upcoming Storyline Bible Studies
Show notes by Micah Long